In attendance:
Darcie Hudson (teacher at Hall)
Diane Hudson (speaker, software engineer at Hireology)
Natalie Ruíz (sophomore)
Rawda Othman (sophomore)
Priya Sinha (Founder/organizer, sophomore)
Priya Shinde (sophomore)
Hannah Schoen (sophomore)
Alyssa Puskarz (Founder/organizer, sophomore)
Julia Savo (sophomore)
Val Auwarter (sophomore)
Society of Women Coders
On Thursday January 6th the Society of Women Coder’s club had an interview with Mrs. Diane Hudson, a software engineer at Hireology. She is the daughter of our club’s advisor Mrs. Darcie Hudson. She talked a bit about how she’s come to where she is in her career, what inspired her, what challenged her, and some issues she’s seen in the computer science field.
Mrs. Hudson Sr. started off talking about the club’s mission of integrating more diversity in the computer science field, “Everyone is here to bring the opportunity of programming to people who don’t have the opportunity… They help bring a special diversity to the club, considering the field is mostly dominated by men, especially white men.”
She then introduced her daughter Mrs. Hudson Jr. and talked a bit about how her daughter got interested in computer science through taking AP Computer Science A (AP CSA).
Through taking AP CSA her teacher gave her and some other students an opportunity to compete in a computer science competition in Stamford, Connecticut. However, Mrs. Hudson Jr. was the only girl that went. The bus ride down was discouraging because all the boys were talking to each other and not including her. However, when she got to the competition Mrs. Hudson Jr. strategically placed herself between the boys at the table so they could not have a conversation without including her. Mrs. Hudson Sr. then added that: “It brings forth a bigger issue of how do we as women or as minorities get our voices to be heard?” She goes on to say that: “It is not an industry where people reach out and are like ‘hey what do you think?’ Especially towards underrepresented people.”
Mrs. Hudson Sr. finishes with another story of when a professor of Mrs. Hudson Jr’s in college showed an example of some work in class. The example didn’t sit right with Mrs. Hudson Jr. so she reached out to her professor after class. The professor was very receptive and listened to her. But it shows that oftentimes women and minorities are afraid to speak up or put themselves out there. She ends with, “This is living proof of a talented and smart woman who broke barriers without really knowing what she was doing.”
Then Mrs. Hudson Jr. introduced herself:
I graduated from Simsbury high school in 2014. I then moved on to the University of Minnesota, which was kind of an odd choice, but I was seventeen and wanted to be different. I now live in Minnesota. I got my bachelor’s of science in computer science, which I entered wanting to do. I also got a minor in gender and women sexuality studies. I did two internships at financial service companies Voya and Securian while in college. Securian offered me a full time position as a software engineer after I graduated, which then I worked there for two and a half years. I then realized I didn’t find life insurance that interesting. So then in November of 2020 I switched to manufacturing, where I still was a software engineer. I worked for a company called StageGlass that makes smart glass, which can help lower energy use in buildings, so it’s a cool sustainable product. Manufacturing is a bit more chaotic than life insurance and by the end of it I was doing a bit more project management then coding. So when I reached a year there I realized I didn’t want to lose my software engineering skills, so I moved to a different software company Hireology.
Hireology does more ‘SAS’ (Software As a Service) engineering. An example of this would be Microsoft Word where you pay a subscription to access the software. Hireology is a hiring platform where you pay to recruit candidates for jobs. So other companies will subscribe to use the hireology platform to help them hire new people. There are different terms people use for different types of software engineering. There is ‘front end and back end.’ Front end engineering is the actual website. If you were logging into a bank the ‘front end’ would be the actual website you click through and the user interface. The back end would be the actual storing of the data that back the website as well as sending information back and forth between different websites that might need that information. There is also ‘full stack’ where you essentially do a little bit of both. In my first two jobs I was doing full stack and in my current role I am doing back end. Which is where I am the happiest.”
Club members then turned to a partner and came up with a question to ask Mrs. Hudson Jr. The first question we got was from Priya Shinde.
Priya Shinde: How long did it take you to get to where you exactly wanted to be?
Diane: I wasn’t exactly confident that I wanted to major in computer science when I started college. I was actually interested in book publishing, I really liked English a lot. I think something that kept my interest and encouraged me was being a teaching assistant in the computer science department in college. I had a bunch of different responsibilities such as holding office hours where I’d help students with their homework and I would also run lab sessions where after the professor would lecture on a topic we would run a lab applying those skills. Being a teaching assistant helped me get past some Imposter Syndrome or just feeling like I wasn’t smart enough.
While teaching, I noticed a trend that a lot of women students or students with minority identities would often say things like “I’m sorry I’m just not good at this” or “Would you have done it that way?” They all seemed to think their questions were silly but in reality they were all good questions and often they were the same ones other students were asking. It was apparent that a lot of students who weren’t always represented would often turn it back on themselves and be like “I’m confused just because I’m not good at this” not “I’m confused because this is a hard course.” That view was really interesting and helped me see which ways I was internalizing that. Even with my mom [Mrs. Hudson Sr.], when she started to think about teaching computer science she kept saying “I don’t know if I’m going to be good enough to do this.”
Mrs. Hudson Sr. then added, “Yeah it kind of goes back to debunking that myth with computer science that it’s not accessible or I can’t do it. It’s like any other thing, you just don’t know what you don’t know. You have to start somewhere.”
Adding in, as a chapter, we agree the most important action you can take is to try. Coding isn’t something most people get on the first try, but that is why it is so relevant in society. It helps us grow as individuals and there is always a way you can try it, and we are here to help if needed.
Mrs. Hudson Jr. finished her though with: “I wasn’t necessarily always successful all of the time. In college there were a few classes that I withdrew from because I just wasn’t picking up the material fast enough and I was struggling a bit. I feel like sometimes when you struggle with something and come through it then you feel a little bit more comfortable and confident.”
Alyssa Puskarz then posed our second question.
Alyssa: Have you seen more of a difference in diversity in going to college for computer science or in the job field?
Mrs. Hudson Jr.: “When I was in college I was a part of a couple student groups, one in particular called “the Association of Computing Machinery for Women.” One of our main goals was to improve retention of women in the computer science major. What we saw was that Intro to Computer Science classes were composed of 30-40% women but then when it was time for these computer science majors to graduate, at least in my year in 2014, only about 14% of computer science majors were women. From this, we saw the issue was mainly with retention not recruitment. There were plenty of women who were interested, but many were put off by the sometimes toxic environment. As a white woman, I come from a place where I am highly represented in the computer science field, because of my race. So I had an easier time of it than others. It’s interesting and saddening that plenty of people and women are interested in computer science, but these institutions that are supposed to be giving us the next step are making an environment that isn’t good for retention. I don’t necessarily have an answer to fix that right now, but it is definitely something that needs to be worked on.
Another interesting insight I found is when I was looking for my most recent job. I was really searching for a ‘work life balance.’ So when I was searching I was trying to find a company where you aren’t fighting tooth and nail constantly. One thing I really like about my employer, Hireology, is that they have engineers from a bunch of different backgrounds. A big reason for that is because they don’t require a 4 year degree to be a software engineer for them. A lot of people follow a path similar to mine and major in computer science, but some will major in different things, start off in different fields, or not go to college. A lot of people will switch to coding later in life and don’t want to go to college again so they will go to these coding bootcamps that run for about six months where you get a very good education in coding. So I’ve noticed that that brought a lot more diversity. One of the people I work with is a woman of color and she was a musician for seventeen years, but decided to go to a coding bootcamp and make a switch. She is one of the most intelligent and enjoyable people I work with. She is also set to be recognized by the company as a new associate that has made the biggest impact on the company. In software engineering there are a lot of barriers in place and there are a lot of proven ways to get around them. Unfortunately, not all companies are willing to embrace some of these new practices. There are definitely a lot of people trying to increase diversity but it definitely is a problem that needs to be further addressed.”
Coding and science fields are clearly dominant with white males, and this needs to change. We are all capable of making an impact and proving ourselves, but if people are constantly told they can’t, then that stops them. As a society, we need to promote diversity as thats what makes us learn and grow from each other. The problem that there is very little diversity especially in coding needs to be addressed and change must come.
Our second to last question was from Priya Sinha.
Priya Sinha: So I think a lot of people have this idea that coding is just sitting at a desk like 24/7 and not getting up. Would you say you agree with that perception?
Diane: Yeah, I would say that is a stereotype that is pretty prevalent. For me what I’ve done day to day has been pretty different between the different companies I worked at. I would say when I was in manufacturing there was a lot less sitting because there was a lot of going on the manufacturing floor. We often needed to physically look at the product we were building to determine what was wrong with it and what we needed to do to fix it. That job was a lot more hands-on than some of my other roles. One thing I really like at my current company is that it is super collaborative, so it’s common for us to get on Zoom and try to work through a problem together. To create software, you need a lot of collaboration and if you are alone the whole day on your computer you are prone to make false assumptions about what you’re making that aren’t accurate. Then you might have to go back and fix it or your final product might not be very high quality. I think there is a lot more collaboration than people realize that goes into it.
Our final question was from Hannah Schoen.
Hannah: Why did you originally get into computer science? Like I know you took the AP computer science class in high school, but what first interested you?
Diane: I think it was one of my math teachers that recommended the course to me, so that’s who introduced me to it. There is also a Simsbury High School alum who had a really crazy career. She’s worked for Disney, Microsoft, Apple, and Google. So once a year she would come back and talk to the math classes about all the cool things she’s done. I remember hearing her talking and thinking, “Wow! That’s pretty cool.” That definitely had an impact on me. Specifically, in the AP course there were parts of math that I really liked. Overall, I liked math, but it wasn’t my favorite subject, but there were parts of it that I liked that I saw in computer science more. I really like patterns and puzzles and that’s what I feel like computer science is pretty similar to. So that was the part that interested me. My computer science teacher at Simsbury High School, Ms. Farrington, actually had teaching as her second career. She worked as a software engineer for about 15 years and then said, “I don’t think I want to do this anymore,” and then decided to become a teacher. I think having her as my teacher was really cool because I was able to get more information about what it was actually like in the job field. Those are the pieces that sparked my interest in the field.
The club then clapped for her and thanked Mrs. Hudson Jr. for coming.
Personally, on behalf of the SOWCoders club I would like to thank Mrs. Hudson Sr and Mrs. Hudson Jr. for coming to talk with us. I think this was a really great opportunity for us all to learn a little more about computer science as an actual career and her experience navigating that as a woman. We love to have speakers come in and talk to us about all things computer science so if you’re interested in coming to speak with us please feel free to email SOWCodersUSChapter@gmail.com . Again, we are so thankful that Mrs. Hudson Jr. came to speak with us and this was a great experience!
